Review of the Digital Rights Forums discussion
A Digital Rights Forums was held today in Trinity’s Science Gallery, with the intention of discussing the recent Statutory Instrument (SI) recently signed into law by Minister Sean Sherlock, as well as discussing the future of Irish copyright law and the challenges in finding a common ground between the different corporate interests and the interests of the Irish people.
The small panel included some of the most vocal supporters and naysayers to the act:
Minister Sean Sherlock TD, Minister for research and innovation in Ireland,
Paul Durrant, General Manager of Internet Service Providers Association of Ireland (ISPAI),
Tom Murphy, Director and Founder of Boards.ie,
Simon McGarr, Head of Stop SOPA Ireland.
We’d like to review the key points raised by each panelist, in order to provide an easier understanding of the current state of our digital rights and the actions that the country is taking towards changing these rights.
Before you read on, we would highly recommend you watch the recording of the event on ustream. We really enjoyed it, and thought it showed a much larger perspective and context to copyright legislation that we rarely see.
Mr. Sherlock opens talking about the Copyright Review Committee (CRC), a consultant committee set up by the government to recommended copyright changes to be brought into law (link). He says that there is an 86 question questionnaire (link) that members of the public are free to fill in and submit, and submissions will be reviewed by the committee and go through legislative process. He then clarifies that Ireland is bound by EU law and that new legislation can’t go against that, and continues to say that he wants the CRC document (link) to be the working copy of Ireland’s future legislation.
Paul Durant is next to take the podium. He starts with arguing that there is increased uncertainty for business development and innovative online digital services in Ireland, because rather than clarifying the law, it has clouded it. He says that instead of pirates going through the legal process, rights holders have been given a framework to sue ISPs. He makes the point that back when the EU copyright directive was made (and the laws it stems from), things were a lot different and people didn’t really know what an intermediary was. By having an SI that copies old law, it simply brings vagueness into Irish law. Clarification of what’s legal and what isn’t is entirely in the hands of the courts which gives uncertainty to new businesses, and businesses wishing to operate in Ireland. He concludes by reminding us that the Cloud Computing industry is a huge asset which Ireland can take advantage of, but since Cloud Computing by definition hosts third party content, we need to be extremely careful when deciding what laws to introduce.
Tom Murphy stood up next opening with a familiar argument against the SI, in that it is “vague in the extreme”. He argued that he is liable to be sued for things that other people say and do, that “if what you say could get me in court tomorrow, there’s no way in hell I’m gonna let you say it”. He made the analogy that if he ran a toll booth, and a bank got robbed, that under the new law he would be sued if the robbers used his road to get away, and that “toll roads aren’t responsible when someone uses them for an illegal purpose”. He also says that CRC is an important process, and urges the public to get involved and get active in the committee. Finally he didn’t want to let Sherlock use the CRC as an excuse to ignore the SI, showing a tweet from Trinity’s Eoin O’Dell (Chair of the CRC) which said that the CRC had nothing to do with the SI. He concluded by saying that the EMI had sued the state, and that the only reason the government was pushing this through was because of the pressure from the corporate body.
The last speaker to take the podium was Simon McGarr. He argued that ”consensus between commercial interests, is not the same thing as consensus between public interest”, and stated that the CRC is very technical and made it very difficult to get involved. He closed by reminding the parties that this is our culture and society, and not hammering out a deal between 2 sides – “Those sides are a sideshow, we’re the broad middle”.
Next came the questions, from moderator, the audience and other panellists. We’ll sum them up in an indirect fashion.
- Minister Sherlock admitted that the challenges the CRC faced were difficult and acknowledged the difficulties faced by the ISPs and intermediaries ”If someone transgresses through boards.ie, should boards.ie be responsible for that transgression … how do you address this … it’s a legitimate question that you pose, and I don’t have the answers now”".
- Tom argues with Sherlock that he had the chance to put changes through a committee 2 months ago and that Sherlock didn’t listen. He said that Sherlock was given alternative legislation by a technical group which would have given injunctive release but he instead went on to sign old EU law, and that ”there wasn’t any rush to pass this through, except that we were being sued by EMI”. He then reiterates one of the main concerns. “The problem is we end up with schrodinger’s law. The law doesn’t exist until a judge observes it. And it’s innocence or guilt is decided then. Now we don’t know in advance so I can’t be in compliance with a law that doesn’t exist yet”.
- Minister Sherlock agrees that ”music industry needs a kick in the behind and come into the 21st century”, and that “”the question is how do you design an infrastructure … to protect copyright, if we all acknowledged that the right to copyright actually exists”.
- Ross McDonagh from the Metro Herald asked Sherlock why he didn’t want Simon to appear on the panel. The minister told him that this is in the past, and that this is a new space, to which Ross responded ”on this you’ve been accused of not thinking things through”.
- Tom brought up the alternative SI again, asking Sherlock to clarify why he did not sign it in. Sherlock replied that he relied on the advice from the Attorney General. When Tom asked if the Attorney General had seen the alternative SI, he eventually replied “No, but her office did”.
- Angela Dorgan, CEO of firstmusiccontact said that no matter who was consulted, it appeared the Minister did not listen anyway. She asked ”If the resounding result coming back to the CRC consultation process is we do not support what you have already signed into law, will you change your mind. It’s a very simple straightforward yes or no question”. The Minister stalled heavily, but eventually conceded that yes he would be open to changing his mind. Tom then responded to the question saying that you would not be listened to. That the CRC meeting was filled with 50 lobbyists, 2 librarians, himself and “a bloke who wanted to talk about his DVD region encoding”. He reminded us that a lobbyist job is to lobby all day every day, and we need to ”get out there, get involved in the CRC, get involved as much as you can”. Sherlock admitted that ”you’re going to have powerful corporate interests, and that’s the way the European union works“.
- Simon also talked about the SI, and how the minister had the opportunity to introduce a law that protects fundamental rights the minister was cited defending.
- Tom went on to say the analogy of the night ”in china if you stand on a soap box and criticise the government, they shoot you … In Ireland, they shoot the guy who made the soap box”. The minister tried to combat this by saying that boards.ie has been in business 12 years and they are still up, and have never been sued, to which Tom replied ”because I fight, ask MCD” and ”Sean, EMI sued a country. What makes you think they won’t come after a small 5 person company”.
- Sherlock then closed the talk managing to say ”sometimes within the online community, people are very big egos when they’re behind their own screens, in their own houses, and I think people need to part the egos, including ourselves in government, and to engage”, before going on to say that the people he meets from twitter are usually very nice in person.
There you have it. Hopefully we helped make the 80 minute discussion a little more concise and easier to understand. The article was intended to be as unbiased as possible, but after finishing it I realise that may have been a lost cause.
If you have thoughts or comments about the article, the video, the CRC or copyright law in general, we’d love you hear them in the comments below.



